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Ryan

Hello everybody and welcome to the second in the series of the 1Medical podcast - 1 in Focus, where we are hoping to showcase the interesting lives of doctors, clients, our team, and in general just the weird and wonderful world of healthcare that we all work in and love.

Last time we had Dr. Michelle Withers an Emergency Medicine Specialist with Ben Lepke having a conversation with her. Today we've decided to come in-house and meet our amazing Verity Batt. Verity is an accomplished medical recruiter and focuses on the Rural and Remote space within the Australian healthcare market. She comes from a line of doctor heritage as her father is an amazing GP Obstetrician, Dr. David Batt from South Australia. I've had the pleasure of working with Verity now for over a decade I believe so, without more to do, let's hear from the main lady herself. How are you Vez?

Verity

Thanks for the intro, Ryan It’s all very well up here in Brisbane thanks as you said, Dr. David Batt, my father is a GP Obstetrician and has been working in Victor Harbour since I was, well before I was born in fact, so rural medicine has always been an aspect of my life.

I remember very fondly as a little girl, going on home visits with my dad to visit patients after hours and sitting on the ends of beds of patients and always putting a smile to their faces, whether they were elderly or whatever it might be. Another really fond memory is when dad would come home and there would be new little babies that would be delivered, and we would hear about their names and on the odd opportunity, we'd also get to go and visit the new baby's he delivered in a hospital.

I guess rural medicine has been part of my background and upbringing, growing up in Victor Harbour in South Australia. I then schooled in Adelaide and did a gap year both in Costa Rica and to Spain as part of my law degree. I guess from there, I worked in private practice in both Adelaide and then Sydney, and in 2011 so as Ryan said, over a decade ago, I was looking for a bit of a career change and that is when I fell into medical recruitment and met Ben and Ryan and that's where I'm at now 11 years later.

Ryan

So just looking at you on the screen here, you're still looking a lot fresher-faced 11 years down the line, and what I'm currently looking here, Verity.

Verity

I have a one-year-old and a two-year-old and you've got two cats.

Ryan

Yeah, I’m well aware that I can hear them trying to break into the door here, so lovely background there. I've started to recall some more memories from your childhood about some of the adventures your dad used to go on, but well maybe touch on them later. Verity, you're a very successful medical recruiter you've been doing this for quite some time. Now you've seen a lot and what does a day look like in the life of a medical recruiter in Australia?

Verity

Gosh, well, I guess no day is the same, but I guess every day, there are always conversations. A lot of my day is spent on the phone, whether it's talking to existing locums about their current contracts or what they might be doing in the future. But a lot of it is also talking to new locums about what they might be looking for in an agent. Similarly, we always talk to the hospitals, to those client contacts to directors talking about what requirements they have at present and down in the future, to see where we can assist in their medical staffing. Every day, there is travel, there is Medicare, there is credentialing, and there are references.

Ryan

I thought you were going to say every day there's trouble before you said the word travel.

Verity

There are always complexities that are involved on the back end of dealing with a busy recruitment desk. So yeah, no day is the same but it's always a busy day. I like to have a bit of a plan, but it never seems to go plan as such.

Ryan

Have you always found that the days fly by in medical recruitment?

Verity

They are fast? I don't know what's fast, or whether my mornings and evenings with my two little children or my actual recruitment day? I'm not sure which is easier, and which is faster?

Ryan

And what's the best thing about placing in rural Australia? What do you enjoy the most what gives you the most pleasure?

Verity

I think knowing that you're directly helping rural hospitals with their medical cover in their hospitals. Helping out what might be your grandparents or your children or your aunties, uncle’s parents in these remote communities that are so desperately seeking good medical cover.

Just before we started this, I hopped off the phone to a GP Anaesthetist that I've known for almost all my life in fact. He's a current locum and I was just hearing about his recent experiences working in rural Queensland as a locum and going over and above. It was a story about a patient, an elderly patient that desperately needed some medical care. He was terrified of going to the hospital and the clinic because he didn't know who was working there. This particular locum took it out of his time to go and do a home visit and within five minutes, the daughter of this man had called up and said, when can he come to the hospital to have the procedure done that he needed. It just shows that if you get these good regular locums going out to communities, it really instils the trust of these patients that perhaps don't have that fortunate, ongoing care in some of these locations that we support.

Ryan

Yeah, so again, without getting too emotional into it, it really does feel I suppose that you are making a difference sometimes in some of the work that you do. I myself, as you know started off in the same place and placed doctors in rural Australia again, with a heavy focus on Queensland.

Some days, I gladly really wish I was back doing that. I'm quite jealous of what you get up to and some of the other guys as well but with regards to getting some kind of sort of enjoyment out of the role. It really does feel like a different achievement when you actually get the right doctor to the right location and resolve the issue for everyone involved and hopefully, of course, have positive outcomes with the communities. What's the best thing about placing in sorry, not the best thing? I've already asked that question. What's the most challenging thing about placing in rural Australia?

Verity

I think at the moment, it's the doctor shortage that we have so, as much as we are desperately trying to help out all of the rural hospitals, there are not enough locum doctors to go around at the moment for what the staffing needs are. So, it's really difficult to have those conversations and as it's equally rewarding to place doctors into some areas of need, it feels like you're always letting down certain hospitals that can't find the cover that they need. So, I think that's in the current market that's my biggest challenge.

Ryan

Do you find that the people that you work with tend to work with you on those challenges people that you know the more regular locums that work in these locations, and they help you get around some of these issues?

Verity

Absolutely and when we're looking at what our locum staff force is, you're often looking at full-time locums who might do rotational work, whether it's a week on week off, two weeks on two weeks off all sorts of different rotations.

I guess one of the rewarding parts of my role is when we get these full-time locums that go back and provide continuity to some of these towns and remote communities and that's always a really rewarding aspect of my job. So, if I could, I guess, times those doctors by ten of what I have, of those full-time locums and go out and support those other areas that are in need, then it would make it all the much easier and more rewarding I suppose.

Ryan

You mentioned full-time locums, what do you think it is that makes a doctor transition into that sort of situation? Where they are mainly conducting full-time time locum work even if it's on a part-time basis, but as opposed to mainly, maybe sorry having some form of permanent position or some kind of the point, whatever it might be FTE somewhere.

Verity

Sure, I guess, when I consider the full-time locums that I have, and that I work with, most of them are based it might be in Brisbane or in Melbourne or in Sydney and they have young families or families that or wives that have jobs that are in those cities but these doctors’ true passion is rural and remote.

Being a full-time locum and doing rotational work, allows them to keep their hand in and do the work that they're passionate about. It enables their children to go to the schools that they want or their respective partners to have the jobs that they need, and it creates a really good work-life balance. They're also able to go and do two weeks of solid work and then have two weeks off to recover. So, it really does maximise their time by only working six months of the year they maximise their incomes and while they're away, they really do work quite hard.

Ryan

I think that one of the things that we often get into debates with people around is about how much the doctors earn but again, I'm quite open to having that conversation with people they get paid well for a difficult job, and quite often that job means that they have to make sacrifices in other parts of their life.

If they are working away from home, that's an obvious sacrifice but then a lot of stuff that doesn't also get seen as that that working away from home. It might mean that they have to travel there and back, and it might mean that they can't commit to any form of work when they're actually back at home because they can't fit into whatever local work may or may not be available. So yes, they do get paid well but there's a reason for that, it's a supply and demand issue. We'll probably not talk too much more about locum rates because there's it's a hot topic that divides people, so to speak like most things these days. Where's the most unique location you've ever placed a doctor?

Verity

Oh gosh, I guess working in rural and remote we cover such a grand part of Australia, but I guess islands always come to mind. Norfolk Island I placed into some time ago and that's considered under New South Wales Health. I think it's quite a quiet location but certainly a working holiday destination for the Doctor and his family who he was able to take over with him. I guess other places like Thursday Island, right up in the top end of Australia from the islands out there you were only, certain kilometers off I think four or five kilometers off PNG and other areas there.

Ryan

That's one of your dad's preferred locations, historically.

Verity

He has been to Thursday Island and at present, he's actually locuming on Kangaroo Island so yeah, again, some fantastic destinations to get to. Another favourite for a lot of locums is Exmouth so that's over on the coast of WA and not too far is where you can actually go swimming with the whale sharks so pretty fascinating areas.

Look, they're just some great destinations but there are also some amazing indigenous communities that were placed into and there's also larger hospitals, so places like Rockhampton, or Yeppoon or Geraldton. There are lots of larger hospitals that doctors like to go to as well so, locations are specific to what the doctors want and choose to go to and but there's some pretty interesting stuff out there.

Ryan

Yeah, no, it is a very, diverse marketplace indeed and one of the issues I suppose is trying to work with the doctors to try and exactly assess what it is that's going to suit them best. I know, ultimately, they tend to fall into one or two camps, whether that be the larger locations or the smaller locations, but there's still a huge amount of variety that goes beneath that. What's the, I'm loving reading these questions back? What's the craziest thing that's ever happened, while you've been working in medical recruitment?

Verity

Oh, gosh, there's a multitude of, I guess, experiences I could explain about locums out on particular jobs and things that have gone one way or the other but there is one that strikes me, and it was right when I joined into medical recruitment in 2011. I think you and I were there together at the RMA in Alice Springs.

That's the Rural Medicine Australia Conference, where hundreds of doctors were stranded in Alice, and Qantas grounded all their fleets. It was on the day that we were all meant to return from the conference back to our homes and for the doctors to their rural communities, where they had patients booked for the next day no one could get out of there. So, the logistics in watching, as I say hundreds of doctors trying to get back, they were flying in private planes to get doctors home, they were hiring cars to drive a number of days, people were jumping in with another person's car who might be getting them to x destination. It was total chaos seeing all these rural doctors who had already taken time out to do this annual conference not be able to get home.

Ryan

Yeah, I do remember that was 2011, wasn't it? It was yes. Yeah. I remember it was convenient that Alan Joyce let the politicians fly out of Perth I believe to make sure that they all got into the air and got home before he then made the decision to air to ground the fleet, I think there were probably 450 doctors or something like that was stranded in Alice. You and I flew back to Darwin eventually I've got recollections of sleeping on the floor in Darwin airport for a few hours.

Verity

We sure did, yet we had to divert from our direct flight from Alice to Sydney and yet detour via Darwin and get on the red eye to start work on Monday morning, so we weren’t, well were affected, but I'm sure for some of the rural doctors it was a different story for their patients that were booked for that next day.

Ryan

Now leads me to a bit of a segue here so your other half, nearly said the wrong words there, your other half is Qantas pilot, do you ever bring this issue up with him and raise this at dinner table conversation?

Verity

No, I think we keep these things fairly separate Ryan.

Ryan

I was going to say I thought you could bring it up at the husbands and wives or partners ball if you want to call it on the annual basis and voice your opinions to Joycie.

Verity

He's a freight carrier, so he wouldn't be able to help out with the transport of doctors anyway they only do horses and boxes.

Ryan

Well, if travel keeps getting the way it goes, we might have to be shipping some of these doctors via freight so, we'll see how we go. Moving on to sort of current market and stuff like that Verity, paperwork process is something that's hugely spoken about because I know from memory and still from hearing what goes on a daily basis, that the paperwork across the market is still a challenge. Any advice you'd give to doctors, and everyone involved as to how best to approach it and what you find works best?

Verity

Look coming from where we sit, we do all that work for you. So as an agent, we have a fantastic system called Flows2Forms, which is an online system, it takes a sort of 10 to 15 minutes to fill out a questionnaire, and then all of a sudden, we can populate all your data onto our documents.

Whether it be a Queensland Health credentialing application, a privacy policy, or a Medicare form, that enables us to then pre-populate all your data and then shoot it out to you and you can electronically deal with the ins and outs of what the hospitals require. Whilst paperwork is a huge part of what we do, we will help you through that process as much as we can. Unfortunately, you know, I guess every state has its own credentialing system, and then within the state, there are separate health districts that have their own requirements, and systems. So, we're here to help you I guess, through all of that and, once we've got all your paperwork, then we will take all of that away from you, as your agent.

Ryan

Very good, you make it sound simple.

Verity

It's not so simple from our end, but we'll make it as simple as we can for the doctor and for the hospital.

Ryan

No, indeed, it is a necessary evil, of course, it's an important part of the role and never very rarely does anybody in the market ever end up in a situation where there's a doctor working without a complete set of paperwork. Although it is quite a challenging conversation, sometimes initially with some people, there is the reality that in most cases, you're not going to set foot into a hospital facility across Australia without having a complete deck of paperwork in place. When you know the end outcome means that it needs to be complete it needs to be got there by hook or by crook so, after the usual moaning and groaning we usually get there.

From the other side of the fence, what do you think the clients are looking for? In terms of doctors? I know you touched upon their longer-term commitments in some of the rural areas, getting that continuity of care, the repeat doctors back and forth. Anything else you think that they might be seeking?

Verity

Yeah, absolutely, I mean if a doctor goes to a location, and they start building some rapport with the patients, with the clinic staff, the hospital staff, and that can continue to go back, it makes a really fantastic, regular spot. Not only for the hospital, but also for the doctor, and the community as a whole. I think they’re looking for that continuity of availability, to then be able to provide that to the patients, it also creates less paperwork. So, once we've done all your paperwork once in, it's really just touching up on anything that might have expired, whether it be your medical indemnity or your APHRA or things like that, so I guess that's one aspect.

That's where we do pride ourselves to know most of the hospitals inside and out, as to what they need and by having a paperless system, the way that we operate, it actually helps support us to provide to those clients as best we can.

Ryan

Good, good. And what about from the doctor’s side of things? What do you think they're looking for? I've got one thing that springs to mind before you answer and that is not regardless of the workplace, it's often the accommodation that can be the sticking point.

Verity

Yeah, look absolutely I think every doctor's motives are different, to be perfectly honest. Whether that's a full-time locum and occasional locum or even a locum doctor that does one working holiday a year, we really have to listen to what those doctors are after, and really find roles to address, what it is that they're looking for. Ultimately, I think, some doctors looking for a destination where they can go and have a bit of a working holiday with their family, other doctors are actually looking to try and upskill and work alongside, other directors and see how they might be able to take things back to their own hospital to improve their systems, other doctors are just going to, quite frankly, stay out of the politics of what might be in a full-time role. They just can come into a job, do their job, do their clinical work, and then get out of there so ultimately, every doctor is different.

There's a locum placement at the moment where you raise accommodation is that a critical point is that their needs to be suitable both for him and his wife and with cooking facilities, so they can actually provide their own meals for the two-week period when they're going to do a locum. I know I've expressed to the client that if accommodation is satisfactory, then the doctor is looking at doing two on two off regularly. It's really about making these environments and locations comfortable, and as best they can, so that the doctor can go and really feel part of the community and enjoy the work that they're doing.

Ryan

Yeah, it's a real challenge I know, certainly, in some of the more regional and rural locations. There's an issue with, the lack of hospital accommodation because it was never intended to be that way, and well, of course, there just isn't the local housing stock in the rental market, which just creates further challenges. So, I do feel for all parties involved in this, it is an ongoing challenge that we get involved with, to try and resolve.

Touching on the market, as a sort of looking ahead to how do you see the doctor locum market developing over the coming years? So, you've, you're a decade into it now? Over a decade, 11 years? I'm guessing you've seen quite a few changes to a certain extent so what are you thinking? Looking ahead?

Verity

Yeah, I guess the hot topic at the moment is what you talked about just briefly earlier, which is right. I returned from maternity leave, I went on maternity leave sorry in February 2021 and returned well frontside so in February of this year. To be perfectly honest, I hadn't seen really any rate increases in the 10 years prior, and there has been a huge shift from the hospitals in terms of pay rates at the moment. So that is a hot topic, not only for the doctors, but also for the hospitals, executives, and agencies.

I don't really know where it's going to go in the next six to twelve months but it's an interesting time, because we've got not only doctor shortages, but we've also got inflation and interest rates increasing. It'll be an interesting space to watch over the next six or twelve months to see what unfolds but I guess my focus has always been, just finding the right doctors for the right roles and trying to support the communities as best we can.

Ryan

Yeah, that's a good way to look at it, there are quite a lot of things that you've mentioned that are definitely out of our control, in particular the rates. As many people know, we very rarely get involved in any of the dictation of the rates. They're often dictated to us by the clients and based on what they're having to deal with supply and demand, which is some in some places, I think is a bit of a common misconception, because I think some states and territories potentially think that the locum agencies are controlling the rates, which is certainly not the case, I wish we were to a certain extent.

Although I am slightly uncomfortable with how high some of the rates have gotten, like you said, many of these rates didn't change for ten, eleven, or twelve years prior to all this. It was certainly something that was starting to change before COVID and then COVID accelerated some of that change through the significant disruption to the demand and the distribution to the doctors. The fact that they either couldn't do work or they could do work but even if they did want to do work, they couldn't get across borders, it created all sorts of things we'd never seen before. There was the usual flow of 1500 Junior British and Irish doctors that usually come into Australia every year that didn't come and some of the existing 1500 that come every year did stay. They started to peter out as things opened up and borders opened up, so there have been all sorts of levels of disruption at both ends of the market, which I think is probably playing into these rates. I think we'll probably see them settle down in some way, shape, or form but what that looks like we'll have to wait and see.

While we've got you and just for a bit of a plug, you mentioned before you've worked with absolutely dozens if not hundreds, of amazing doctors over the years in incredible locations across Australia, some of which are absolutely picture-postcard beautiful. We are running a competition at the moment, which was launched in the last couple of weeks, we’re asking doctors that work for us to get their best photos in from their travels. We've already had three or four sorry, maybe five or six doctors actually send in some amazing photos of them in some incredible locations. So, while we mentioned all the other interesting places, it's good to try and get that plug in so please, if people are listening, get those photos in.

Verity, it's been very insightful thank you so much I suppose I should probably wrap this up shortly and leave you, you've probably got time to get back across the road to the school sports day and get in the egg and spoon race.

Verity

I've actually got a few pressing flight matters to deal with and a few locum contracts to confirm.

Ryan

Don't worry, I know there's always the impending pressure of work behind the scenes. Verity you've been very insightful today thank you so much. If I leave you on one question before I let you get back to you lovely Arlo and Ellie, and back to your family life and what not for the day after the flights of course. What advice would you give to somebody wanting to pursue a career in medical recruitment? Maybe somebody who's never done it before, like yourself originally? Or maybe somebody that's working in a different area of recruitment and wanted to transition across?

Verity

Yeah, absolutely, I think was mentioned earlier, I'd come from the backend of law and had been working as a lawyer and really didn't know what I was stepping into when I moved over to medical recruitment, but I certainly know I've never looked back, and it's been a really rewarding and enjoyable career step.

I guess you're working with quality doctors, and you're able to dictate who you work with, and where you place doctors into. I find it a really rewarding role, being able to have conversations and really help doctors’ career paths. There are some doctors I've worked with for eleven years essentially so I've really helped, I guess shape, what their careers have looked like and where they go and work. Whilst it is extremely challenging, it's a lot of hard work, but there's a huge amount of reward and ultimately, you're making a difference to these rural communities and their hospital deliveries.

Ryan

Very good well, hopefully, that's a good advert for people who want to get into medical recruitment we are, if you are listening, we are always looking, so don't hesitate to get in touch. Verity, it's been an absolute pleasure, thank you so much for first off this conversation with us today, but also as well, the last eleven years. I look forward to I can't believe I'm going to say this, but the next eleven years.

Verity

Thanks so much for having me but I do actually foresee myself being here at 1Medical for the next eleven years so that's nothing new to me, so thanks very much for your time.

Ryan

I'll hold you to that come eleven or not.

Verity

That will take us to 2033 I believe.

Ryan

Yeah, no, goodness me I don't even want to think what age on the clock will be on the horizon for me? And Verity, I'll let you get back to it thank you so much again, and I hope people that are listening, have enjoyed this and we'll be back in the near future with the third edition of the 1Medical 1 in Focus podcast and we'll leave it there for today. Thank you very much. Thank you, Vez. Thank you. Cheers. Bye-bye.